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Mission
| History | Current Initiatives | |
Creating Curry or Apple Pie?:
South Asian Artists Break It Down
Saturday
– October 25th, 2003 @ 3:00pm EST
An online roundtable discussion, hosted by the
Non-Traditional Casting Project, Inc.
included the following participants:
Puja
Lalmalani
Actor/Dancer/Choreographer/Writer
San Francisco, CA
Sunil
Malhotra
Actor/Writer
Los Angeles, CA
Sunita
S. Mukhi
Performance Artist/Poet/
Director of Charles B. Wang Center, Stonybrook University
Anuvab
Pal
Playwright
New York, NY
(led by)
Geeta Citygirl
Actor/Director/Producer/Writer/
Artistic Director of SALAAM Theatre
Saturday
– October 25, 2003 @ 3:00pm EST
Geeta Citygirl:
Before we start,
I just want to say what a delight it is to be having this important discussion on
one of the most auspicious days on the Hindu calendar – Diwali (also
known as Deepavali – The Festival of Lights). I truly believe this conversation shall serve
as a bright light in an area that has been historically underrepresented and
not discussed much. I would also like to
say that this is just a small sampling of the journey we are all on.
Originally, I wanted to include one person from every creative discipline. Then I wanted to discuss the problems from
within our community. Finally, I decided
to have a handful of professionals from the field, tap into the general topic
of assumptions and expectations in the hope that this shall trigger further and
deeper conversations. Let's begin by
each of us introducing ourselves, our birthplace, current place of residence
and creative discipline (ex: actor, director, writer, dancer, producer,
musician, etc). I'll leave the order up
to you all.
Anuvab Pal:
I'll take a shot - I'm Anuvab Pal - I'm originally from Calcutta India, I'm a
playwright - I'm in NYC.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
I am Sunita S. Mukhi, born and bred in the Philippines, now in self-exile in
Port Jefferson, Loooong Island. I like to dance, act, perform my poetry, and
performance art. I currently run the Charles B. Wang Center
celebrating Asian and Asian American Culture at Stonybrook
University.
Sunil Malhotra:
Hello everybody. I'm Sunil Malhotra. I'm an actor who lived in New York for a
while and has just recently moved to Los Angeles. I was born in New Delhi,
India, came to the U.S. 6 months later, and grew up in Chicago.
Puja Lalmalani:
I'm Puja Lalmalani....I'm from Chicago....currently living in SF....I would
define myself as an actor, dancer, choreographer, and writer…
Geeta Citygirl:
I am Geeta Citygirl, born and raised in NY - and still here! I'm an actor,
director, producer, writer and Artistic Director of SALAAM Theatre, the first
not-for-profit multidisciplinary South Asian American theatre and arts company
in
Sunil Malhotra:
Assumptions and expectations from the industry or our community?
Geeta Citygirl:
Both. Or either. And when we speak of “our”
community - keep in mind the umbrella term “desi” and how that
seems to reflect the second generation’s need to form an identity that
challenges imaginary lines drawn on the Indian subcontinent. In America, it doesn’t REALLY matter
whether you trace your roots to India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal,
Bhutan or Maldives – you are the same and hence the importance of a word
like ‘desi’. Professor Vijay
Prashad (author of “Karma of Brown Folk”) says, “Phrases like
African American, Asian American, Hispanic American, etc. are bureaucratic
words that do not hold within them the revolutionary aspirations and histories
of a people (categorized but not controlled). I prefer words like Black, desi,
Latino, Chicano, because these words raise associations of struggles, such as
the Black Power movement ('Black is Beautiful,' etc.), the Chicano struggles of
the farm workers, of La Raza, and what not. Desi seems to be a similar word,
one filled with so much historical emotion. And again, it is an ironic word,
because it means of the homeland, but it does not say what that homeland is. We
who use it do not hearken back to the 'homeland' of the subcontinent, because
we are generally not nationalistic in that sense. Our homeland is an imaginary
one that stretches from Jackson Heights to the Ghadar Party, from the rallies
against Dotbusters to the Komagata Maru, from the 1965 Immigration Act to Devon
Street. This is a homeland that we can relate to and it is what makes us feel
like we belong in something of a collectivity. Hence desi. And [the term] is
under construction.”
Puja Lalmalani:
Well, I do feel like actors of color are often put in positions to
"represent" their community....i.e. represent "black
America.” Or the Asian American
experience.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
The
industry assumes that because I am and look and sound Indian that I should and
can play only these kinds of roles.
Geeta Citygirl:
Right.
Sunil Malhotra:
Since coming to LA, it's been a lot clearer to me than when I was in NYC (not
that it wasn't in NYC either).
Specifically, they assume anything Bollywood or "spiritual"
applies to you. It's only recently that
the industry as a whole even really recognizes South Asians (or East Indians,
as they prefer to say) in any way.
Geeta Citygirl:
So Sunil, it's as if we were "invisible" until more recently, right?
And now we are the flava of the month.
Sunil Malhotra:
In terms of visibility and casting.
Geeta Citygirl:
So let's name some other assumptions and expectations -- that way we can get
some clarity on what exactly is assumed or expected by a look, a name, a
headshot... And Anuvab, as a writer, you too must face certain expectations and
assumptions. Perhaps you can share those.
Anuvab Pal:
I certainly believe, as a writer, when I submit something - and I happen to be
South Asian - there is a certain expectation about the kind of work.
Geeta Citygirl:
Let's get really specific about WHAT those expectations are.
Anuvab Pal:
Certainly from creating material, one can see that if there is a play with
South Asian characters - there is an assumption that it may not have
"mainstream appeal" - whatever that means.
Sunil Malhotra:
Yes, absolutely.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
The mainstream media industries suffer a lack of imagination of how this look
and sound can actually make a role more interesting.
Puja Lalmalani:
Well, I think we're expected to play roles that don't necessarily represent our
experience as South Asian Americans.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
I think Puja has a point. The roles we are expected to play are familiar to the
mainstream audiences' perceptions of what a desi is.
Geeta Citygirl:
Explain that idea further, Puja. What
type of roles are you referring to when you say “familiar” to the
mainstream audiences?
Puja Lalmalani:
Well, for instance, seeing a South Asian play a terrorist or a cab driver does
not reflect my experience as an Indian-American. I'm a Midwestern, girl-next
door sort of person, but they would never cast me on Dawson's Creek. Or a similar sort of show that includes
20-something characters.
Sunil Malhotra:
Most of the people writing stuff that gets put "out there" in TV land
or at your local cineplex, if they decide to write us in (or cast us) are only
going off their own experience, which usually is very limited. Which perpetuates a limited view of us.
Anuvab Pal:
That’s true, Sunil. It seems as if
when there is a diverse character, an effort has been made to write it in,
it’s not assumed to be natural.
Puja Lalmalani:
I think that's true for all minority groups....classrooms on TV don't
"look" like classrooms in America.
Geeta Citygirl:
I agree.
Sunil Malhotra:
Neither do hospitals, law offices, government offices, etc.
Puja Lalmalani:
ER
is a great example of that, Sunil. ER's
cast could be half South Asian.
Geeta Citygirl:
True
that. (Except for the addition of Parminder Nagra this season. Yahoo!) And often times I go to an audition and it's a
no win situation. I'm NOT "Indian-enough" for South Asians and not
"apple pie-enough" for American projects.
Sunil Malhotra:
Me,
too! The issue of color and look fit
very much into expectations. In India,
it’s “better” to be fair skin. Here, if they want Indian, they want you
darker (for men) (this is usually the case with black men, too).
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Which is why we need to write and
produce our own stuff!
Geeta Citygirl:
So
it boils down to power? Who’s
writing and producing, right?
Sunita S. Mukhi:
As
we come of age and wealth, we can produce, direct, write and act – of
course, we have to think that these professions are worth getting into.
Geeta Citygirl:
Can
each of you give at least one, concrete and specific example of how you had to
deal with an assumption from WITHIN the South Asian American community?
Puja Lalmalani:
Do
you mean the South Asian artistic community--or just the South Asian community
in general?
Geeta Citygirl:
I
would say the South Asian artistic community - which seems to be broad enough
considering there are many NRI's (Non Resident Indians) calling themselves
artists.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Ah,
I have been cast as a mother too many times - I need a sexier role to play! An
older woman who has sexuality - yes!
Sunil Malhotra:
An
assumption I've encountered is that just because I'm in this industry, I must
have the same ability as a star would to pick and choose material, which
although I may choose from what I get, I don't get much to choose from.
That wasn't for artists.
Geeta Citygirl:
That's
totally okay, Sunil. Any other immediate
thoughts about expectations you have faced from other South Asian American
artists?
Sunita S. Mukhi:
That
you should give your talent for free, and be honored to be chosen.
Sunil Malhotra:
Big
time, Sunita. I think there can be an
expectation to represent the community once you've "made it." I've encountered this a lot, where S.A.
producers (present company excluded) feel they can push the limits of
professionalism because we're all South Asian.
Geeta Citygirl:
I
would just add that there is a "type" that many of these new and
upcoming South Asian American filmmakers (in particular) are looking for.
Puja Lalmalani:
Well,
I used to have an assumption I made, but I've realized it's not true
anymore....but if it were true, it would bring our community up by leaps and
bounds. I used to assume that everyone
(all South Asians, that is) sort of realized the power of unity as a community
to rise up and have success in this industry--and though I've encountered
people that believe in that, not everyone does.
I think if we had more unity and interest in climbing up together, we
would have more collective creative control and power in this art and business.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
We
are notorious for being backstabbing and self-serving; this has got to change!
Sunil Malhotra:
Our
community as a whole (South Asians, not just artists) is so fragmented. Part of the burden of representation falls on
our shoulders.
Puja Lalmalani:
Yes,
Sunil--I totally agree with that.
Sunil Malhotra:
Other
ethnic groups make HUGE noise when something racist happens, or just being
invisible - we as a community don't make that much noise.
Geeta Citygirl:
Okay,
let's continue. Anuvab, any thoughts on
being a writer of South Asian roots? Do
fellow South Asians assume anything about the work you will produce?
Anuvab Pal:
Yes,
they do and it’s fair of people to.
If one is South Asian and have relevant experiences based on their
ethnic make up, it makes sense to incorporate them in the stories one is
telling. The key is to make those
stories universally compelling. The
assumption that I often challenge is the thought that if it’s of a
certain ethnic milieu, it will attract only that milieu and no one else.
Puja Lalmalani:
Which
we know is not true—i.e. My Big Fat
Greek Wedding.
Sunil Malhotra:
Or
Bend it Like Beckham or Monsoon Wedding.
Geeta Citygirl:
And
I agree wholeheartedly. One must write and sometimes try and incorporate their
roots - if they had relevant experiences with it.
Anuvab Pal:
I
mean over and over again you see it proved wrong with Monsoon Wedding, Spellbound.
Geeta Citygirl:
So
there is a place for that voice - the South Asian creative voice - in the
mainstream.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Absolutely. We need to write, perform from our own truth-
this will cross boundaries, indeed!
Puja Lalmalani:
And
I'd like to emphasize that there is space for multiple South Asian voices and
artistic visions—I think it is assumed that we should all speak with the
same artistic voice or mission--and this is just not possible or even
interesting.
Geeta Citygirl:
Would
you agree that the problem with our community is the lack of good writers? Both in film and theatre.
Sunil Malhotra:
Yes,
but that will change over time the more our writers write and get better at the
craft, like anything else. The more you
act or direct, the better you get.
Puja Lalmalani:
So
what are the actors supposed to do in the meantime?!
Geeta Citygirl: Good question, Puja.
Sunil Malhotra:
Push
like hell, Puja.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Persist,
be tenacious. Hone your craft.
Sunil Malhotra:
Get
seen, be seen in anything. Just be visible.
I've noticed that most actors of color who are not stars broke through
with roles based on what was readily apparent - a combination of their
ethnicity/race and their specific type.
Just finishing a thought! :-)
Geeta Citygirl:
Shukria
(thanks in Hindi) Sunil.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Some
writing has pandered to the undeveloped mainstream tastes.
Geeta Citygirl:
I
would say that we have a responsibility to ourselves - the artists within. That
artist is our creative force. We must find ways to nurture and help that artist
within.
Puja Lalmalani:
I
also think we should support one another—i.e. --Anuvab and Geeta...me
giving your scripts to Carey Perloff here at A.C.T.
in
Geeta Citygirl:
Right
on, Lady Puja. While at the same time,
helping to break those negative stereotypes.
Sunil Malhotra:
Yes.
Geeta Citygirl:
In
the past 3-5 years, there has been an explosion of South Asian/desi arts groups
as well as South Asian/desi themed films.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Children
of immigrants growing up!
Geeta Citygirl:
What
are your thoughts on their place in the mainstream arts world? What do they
mean to you?
Puja Lalmalani:
I
think as far as film goes, eventually everything will melt into the genre of
independent filmmaking as opposed to "Indo-American films"...and like
all indie films, some will get attention for being good work as some will
not—but we'll stop looking at them as the latest film in
"indo-American filmmaking"....I think people have stopped caring
about this as a genre already....which shows an evolution as South Asian
artists/art making goes.
Sunil Malhotra:
I
think it's important to nurture the behind the scenes people - writers and
directors - but what I think is lacking is a place where directors and actors
can stage works that don't normally have South Asians in them, but would be a
great spin if they did -merging name recognition of the play with something new
with the cast. That's because the
"genre" is very limited right now, if you can call it a genre.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
I
think we all need to examine how we want to participate in the mainstream - do
we want fame or do we want to express the truth?
Geeta Citygirl:
Interesting
question, Sunita. I think there are
several parts to this puzzle... I know we all agree that all art is political.
Puja Lalmalani:
Sunil--what
could that place be where directors and actors can stage works that don't
normally have South Asians in them? I'm unclear about this.
Sunil Malhotra:
For
example, most South Asian theatre companies only spend time developing writers.
While this is VERY important, I think it's also important for those same venues
to stage known works, where the writing is of a high standard, to
showcase. The talents of SA actors and
directors, too.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
M.
Night Shyamalan just writes stories - he is not "bound' by his ethnicity.
Is he doing justice to his ethnic community?
Puja Lalmalani:
And
yet, he will never be the Spike Lee of his community, either--which isn't
expected of him, either. It's just a
role he hasn't played yet--or a responsibility he doesn’t care for.
Sunil Malhotra:
I
think M. Night is an example of our expectations as artists - that when someone
makes it, they must pull us all up.
Puja Lalmalani:
But,
a Spike Lee for the South Asians couldn't hurt the rest of the artistic
community--someone to rise up to that challenge to build and nurture our
community. I don't think that's
expected--but if they do make it and choose to pull others up, they are
ultimately pulling themselves up, too.....and contributing to the community.
Sunil Malhotra:
I
agree - but that must be true to their vision as an artist, too, and we can't
assume that because they're South Asian, that it will be…
Puja Lalmalani:
Right,
Sunil--and that goes back to the point that just because we're South Asian,
doesn't mean we will or have to share the same artistic vision--which is an assumption
that's often made by ourselves and the mainstream.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
But
M. Night succeeds because he is masterful. My point is we should be good at our
craft first, and are we?
Sunil Malhotra:
Right,
Sunita, and I would argue that as a community, we're very much still growing.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Specifically
as artists, we are still growing.
Puja Lalmalani:
And
yet we've had very few opportunities to really showcase ourselves to the
mainstream—i.e. big films, Broadway etc.
Geeta Citygirl:
This
all reminds me of a debate I attended at Town Hall in January 1997 called
"On Cultural Power" with August Wilson, Robert Brustein & Anna
Deveare-Smith. Except at that time, the
question of race was BLACK AND WHITE.
There was no talk of brown folks or others...
Sunil Malhotra:
I'm
so tired of race being just black and white, it isn't. We must shift the paradigm!
Geeta Citygirl:
And
I agree - I think it's changing. We have to talk about it for the shift to
happen.
Sunil Malhotra:
Race
is a topic most people in America are afraid to discuss. So broadening the discussion is an uphill
battle to say the least.
Puja Lalmalani:
It’s
not just about race, though--it's about gender, sexuality--I mean, it's only
recently that something like Will and
Grace has put gay men into American households. Along
with gender, sexuality, there’s class, too.
Geeta Citygirl:
Do
you think that race is the largest category of identification, the primary
thing that establishes perceptions of you by yourself and from others?
Sunil Malhotra:
Yes,
Citygirl.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
It
sure feels like it here in the East Coast.
Geeta Citygirl:
But
I, too, agree with Puja about gender, class, sexuality –
Sunil Malhotra:
Race
and class are more "dangerous" to talk about than gender and
sexuality these days, which is to say that the latter haven't been dangerous to
talk about.
Puja Lalmalani:
For
me, yes, being South Asian is the primary thing that establishes perceptions
and expectations.
Geeta Citygirl:
As
a woman-of-size, I often think THAT is my biggest roadblock. I often think the
desi thing is secondary...
Sunil Malhotra:
To
be a woman of color in the mainstream, it seems you have to be ready to be
exoticized.
Puja Lalmalani:
And
hair loss--how often do see balding men in film ;-) In leading roles that is.
Sunil Malhotra:
They
all wear wigs or shave it all :-)
Puja Lalmalani:
AGE
is a HUGE thing, too--especially for women.
Sunil Malhotra:
Definitely.
Geeta Citygirl:
Absolutely,
Puja. I just saw Rosanna Arquette's documentary Searching for Debra Winger and it's amazing to hear stories from
"older" women -- girls in their 40's.
Sunil Malhotra:
That
was a good documentary.
Puja Lalmalani:
I
saw that, too--that was awesome.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
US
standards are rather limiting. Foreign films and theater have more diverse
standards, yes?
Anuvab Pal:
I
feel it’s strongest in contemporary TV and film. The idea of race, class and gender. The “specific look, if you will, that a
terrorist should look a certain way and a cab driver should look a certain way.
Geeta Citygirl:
So
Anuvab, I'm still anxious to hear your reply about who you write for -- keeping
in mind all these perceptions we have to combat. The rest of you, take a breath, a sip of
water and exhale...
Anuvab Pal:
The
point is that perceptions won’t change if we don’t start changing
them.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
We
have so much responsibility as artists.
Geeta Citygirl:
In
your plays, are you writing with this in mind? And whose perceptions are we
trying to change Anuvab? Master Pal -
keep thinking and holler back about this.
Puja Lalmalani:
So,
Anuvab, would you say you would like to see more "responsibility"
from people in power, such as M. Night?
Sunita, that question is for you, too....since you brought up the
important issue of responsibility. And
for Sunil and Citygirl, of course.
Anuvab Pal:
I
don’t think responsibility can be forced on anyone - if people feel
strongly about making a cultural statement, then it will be seen in their work,
like the kind of stuff Geeta is doing.
Sunil Malhotra:
I
agree.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
The
artist's first responsibility is to his/her craft - to express some truth and
express it well – integrity.
Anuvab Pal:
And
I don’t think any of us were ready for the surge of South Asian
popularity, but it’s here. And
largely because of the work we're up to, I think all of us…
Sunita S. Mukhi:
But
we do love this surge and should take advantage of it.
Anuvab Pal:
I
mean ten years ago, there were African American actors playing us.
Sunil Malhotra:
There
were white actors playing us!
Anuvab Pal:
And
now we have 2 blockbuster films and a Broadway show. And the audience will respond.
Sunil Malhotra:
Which,
by the way, they still have white and black actors read parts that are
Indian. At least in LA.
Geeta Citygirl:
Let's
see how Tara Rubin Casting casts
Anuvab Pal:
The
audience is out there, and if we keep putting out good work, regardless of
ethnic make up, people will come. The
hard reality is that no one will do it for us - because they have no idea who
we are.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Do
we know who we are?
Sunil Malhotra:
Very
true, Anuvab. The nature of that show
itself - playing on Bollywood and images of a poor India is an example of
perception by the mainstream of South Asia.
Anuvab Pal:
By
they, I mean the mainstream casting people.
And even literary managers at theatres and people who read and write
scripts, etc. Because they will use
their own notions of defining a culture.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
We
also stereotype ourselves.
Anuvab Pal:
That’s
true, Sunita.
Geeta Citygirl:
Do
any of you feel you HAD TO educate yourselves about your SA roots because it
was expected you would create with that in mind? Or that you would speak a
South Asian language or know everything about the history.
Sunil Malhotra:
If
I can’t correct a wrong notion because I don't know, nothing good
happens, but I don't want to create just out of my South Asian identity, my
identity is made up of more than just that (as I’m sure you’d all
agree).
Anuvab Pal:
Good point, Sunil.
Geeta Citygirl:
As
a native New Yorker, I really just identified with being a dancer and a New
Yorker. That is who I was. I didn't know too much about my roots. When I went
to college and people started assuming things, then I thought that I needed to
know more.
Puja Lalmalani:
I
agree, Geeta.
Sunil Malhotra:
Me,
too, Citygirl. The same applies when a
casting director or a producer assumes something - you have to know better if
they don't.
Puja Lalmalani:
I
identify more with being a Midwesterner than someone with "South Asian
roots.” And I identify with the
term Indian-American more than "Indian roots."
Sunil Malhotra:
Definitely
more American than not.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Multiculturalism
for all its positive points has also divided us, made us ethnicity
conscious. I see myself as possessing
Indianness, something I can tuck away or put on.
Anuvab Pal:
The
fact is one's roots don’t go away.
They find some way to creep into one’s work.
Geeta Citygirl:
But
one's roots do not completely define oneself.
Anuvab Pal:
Perhaps
I only speak in writing, but I think it’s true for other disciplines as
well. It’s just more cultural pot
to draw from.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
It
goes back to Sunil's point about having different aspects of one's identity,
rather than just ethnicity.
Anuvab Pal:
Like
an Akram Khan, for example. Or with
fusion music, I suppose.
Sunita S. Mukhi:
Wasn't
that a great performance?
Sunil Malhotra:
That's
when great stuff happens.
Geeta Citygirl:
Absolutely
- great. For the longest time, I really identified as someone who was born in
the city and moved out to the burbs.
Anuvab Pal:
The
hard part is overcoming the "assumptions" we’ve been talking
about.
Geeta Citygirl:
The
question of roots is complex.
Puja Lalmalani:
I
do feel our roots contribute to our work, Anuvab, but part of our
work--especially as actors--is to play characters different from
ourselves....to capture the universal truth of what it is to be human. So, when
a casting director only lets me be "Indian" because I'm Indian, I
feel like I'm not able to do my work, the full range of my work, and
ultimately, I'm not achieving the purpose of the work to begin with.
Anuvab Pal:
Exactly. Good point, Puja.
Geeta Citygirl:
I
believe many of the SA artists born and/or raised here in the US do not even
know the history of theater of India. So
how can they be expected to REPRESENT something? They are American - apple pie.
Anuvab Pal:
And
no one can see that a Burmese or Indian or Thai ER doctor can portray the basic
struggles.
Geeta Citygirl:
I
believe that notions of originality reinforce our idea of separate nations,
each owning its unique and distinct cultures.
Something I've been thinking about is the term Sunita mentioned earlier
- intercultural or multicultural. This
idea of the influence and adaptation across cultures isn't new. The change now
is the manner in which it is regarded.
So do we all identify with being an intercultural and multicultural
artist?
Anuvab Pal:
Theatre
is a great example,, Geeta. We see so
many plays written in the "western" form but with South Asian
themes. You see Mamet style writing set
in houses in Bombay or Goa.
Sunil Malhotra:
Or
movies like Titanic which are so
Bollywood in terms of melodrama.
Anuvab Pal:
Exactly.
Geeta Citygirl:
Right
- so there's a bleeding of one culture into another - just like there is no
pure race, similarly no pure culture...
Anuvab Pal:
Especially,
nowadays.